Dr. Marvin Berlin and the "Say Yes" Philosophy | EODP #25

00:00:00:07 - 00:00:26:18 Marvin You can't be a cosmetic dentist. You can, but you can't be a successful one if you're not posting on social. 85% of our patients come from social media. I remember back in the 90s, I didn't even have a camera and I was doing cosmetic dentistry, a lot of cosmetic dentistry. It's just he couldn't miss something. There's no way I could afford to do that. Tears started following his lady and then me. We were all just bawling. I was like, oh my gosh. 00:00:26:20 - 00:00:53:19 Rob Welcome back to the Evolution of Dental podcast. Brought to you by Evolution Dental Science. I'm your host, Rob Norton. Today's guest is the clinical director of esthetics for Heartland Dental running the esthetic continuum. He learns the largest hands on cosmetic clinic in the country. He's co-founder of McKinney. Dennis. Com and his philosophy of say yes has changed the way of dentists practice dentistry. Doctor Marvin Berlin, welcome to the podcast. How are you this morning? 00:00:53:20 - 00:01:05:24 Marvin Hey, Rob. I'm great. Thanks for having me. It's really good to be here. I'm very excited. This is a an honor. And I'm glad to talk shop with you and your team, so it's going to be fun. 00:01:05:26 - 00:01:11:03 Rob We love having you. Thank you for being here. And congratulations on your on your new granddaughter. Right. 00:01:11:04 - 00:01:17:25 Marvin Yes. Just three weeks old, Miss Chloe. She's awesome. Thank you very much. It's. It's the coolest. 00:01:17:26 - 00:01:29:19 Rob It's incredible. What a blessing. And speaking of new stuff. So you were one of the pioneers of of porcelain veneers at Baylor? Right. 00:01:29:20 - 00:02:23:18 Marvin Well, it's been a while. Yeah. My very first case was back in 1988. And I still remember your very first one. You never forget. And I remember hanging here, the mayor. And it was a tetracycline case. And that's been a long time and almost 40 years. And it adds to the tears that started following his lady and then me. And we were all just bawling. I was like, oh my gosh. And it was just like one color. There wasn't even a shade. It was just like tooth color. I don't mean it wasn't. It was just, you know, whatever A1, I guess. But it lit a fire. It lit a fire way back when. And I've never stopped doing it. It was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And so it's just what I've done for years and years and years is create smiles. And it's it's it's been an incredible journey and I'm still on it. So it's a lot of fun. But yeah, it's been a, been a been a journey for sure. 00:02:23:20 - 00:02:29:01 Rob How's so how did that lead you to where you are today? 00:02:29:03 - 00:02:44:07 Marvin First of all, I've been in dentistry for 47 years. I started my career as a dental assistant back in the 70s. I always wanted to know, wanted to be a dentist, and I. I'm from a very small town in Houston. 00:02:44:09 - 00:02:45:24 Rob Started as an assistant. You said. 00:02:45:25 - 00:02:46:28 Marvin Yeah, I started. 00:02:47:01 - 00:02:47:28 Rob School, okay. 00:02:48:01 - 00:04:04:08 Marvin But I knew I wanted to be a dentist. I just my first job literally was working as dental assistant. I just knocked on this Dennis door, said, hey, I want to work for you. I'll mow your grass. I'll do whatever. And he's like, no, no, we actually need somebody. He goes, I'll can you be an assistant? I said, I don't even know what that is, but I can do it. And so he said, I'm just going to train you. And so I was very fortunate to see dentistry early on. And you know, what was interesting, Rob, is that at the time I'm thinking, okay, dentistry is all about teeth and you know, everything about teeth. And I learned that it's way more about people than it is about teeth. I mean, this is this is all about, you know, how we interact with people. And so it kind of changed my, my learning process. I even said of studying in biology and chemistry, I got a business management, just started learning how to manage people and worked on the business aspect of dentistry in college, had a business degree, then dental school. But with that kind of business mentality always in the back of my mind. And so I've been in dentistry literally since the 70s. And when I got introduced to cosmetic dentistry in that, like I said, in 88, it just lit a fire that still to this day and I is is there. 00:04:04:10 - 00:04:30:06 Rob Oh, I didn't see you there. Hey y'all, it's Robert with the Evolution of Dental podcast. If you love these stories and you want to see more guests, more content and help the show, please remember to share it. Like it? Subscribe to our channel and hit that little notification bell if you're watching on YouTube so you can get notified of our new episodes. New episodes drop every Friday. Follow us on all the socials. You'll see all the latest content. Looking forward to seeing you there. 00:04:30:09 - 00:04:51:00 Rob tie right into the say yes philosophy that you have, and changing how a lot of the young doctors approach things. And that was a totally new thing. That was completely unheard of when you were introduced it. So what made you what made you feel like you could flip the whole script on that? And how how did that feel? What was that experience like? 00:04:51:03 - 00:06:18:18 Marvin You know, that's a that's an interesting question. I'm glad you brought this up because it brings back some great, great memories. And and before we get there, I'm going to I want to introduce you something. Call it this white tree mentality. Yeah. And I want to just I want to go there and then I'll come back to say yes because they kind of feeds off each other. But there's this picture I have and I had got this picture like 30 years ago, and it's my favorite picture. And it's just it's just a picture of trees and they're just a big field of trees there. Right in the middle of this picture is this one massive white tree that's completely blossomed. And every tree in the picture is alive and well. There's nothing bad about any tree, but there's just one that's just doing, you know, it's just blossoming. To me, that's always been this vision of McKinney, Texas or any town, USA. And all those trees are dental practices, but there's one that's just doing things differently. And so we had this mentality, and I have this picture. I see it every day in my office that okay, what can I do to be the white tree? And if it's, you know, willing to push harder, work on my systems, obsess over details, communication, leadership, photography, you know, whatever, be better occlusion and just improve the patient experience. We can go on and on. But what can I do and what can my team do to help our patients be the best thing, be and help our practice be as unique and individual. So if you do come to McKinney, Texas and ask, where should I go to dentist? 00:06:18:24 - 00:09:32:09 Marvin how does McKinney dentist com be the answer to that. And so that's our it's kind of our mentality. We just wanted to help all the other trees. But we still want to be that one that that that we're going to go to. So with that being said, back in the I'd say the early 90s or mid 90s, we were our practice was doing really well. We had a very successful practice. There was me and two of the partners when we just started McKinney dentist. Com and there, gosh, I remember this like this is yesterday. This is crazy. I was up at the office. It was on a Friday. This is how specific it was. And I remember it was before we fill it with heartland because I was paying bills. I don't know why. I remember I was paying bills, but I was up at the office paying bills, which we don't pay bills with heartland, thank the Lord. Anyway, so I'm up at the office and I'm hearing I'm I'm sitting like, the front office is here and there's a little cove around the corner, and I'm listening, not like listening to the phone calls, but you can just hear them. And I kept hearing these phone calls, and every time the phone would ring, I swear it. It was like I hear the word no. I kept hearing the word no. And it was no. You might I don't know what the conversation on the other end because I couldn't hear that. But I was, you know, it was I could hear what we were saying and it was like, ring, ring, ring. Hello? No. You needed exam or. No. You might have a gum disease or. No, you need x rays, an exam. No, you need to meet the doctor. What? But it was just a consistent no. And it didn't seem like it followed into any like. But can we get you in the day or whatever? And so at the at lunchtime I remember talking to Cathy, one of my bas, be it we call our business, we call our front desk later these bas business assistants and I was talking to Cathy like, Cathy, does that happen a lot? She was. What are you talking about? Said I just, I kept hearing the phone ringing and I said every time I, it seemed like every time you say no. And she said, well, you know, the biggest question we get, the number one question we get is can we get our teeth cleaned and we don't do first visit pro fees. It's kind of how we operate. And I was like, oh my gosh, we don't. I mean, and because in dental school we were like, you can't you can't clean teeth on the first visit. You just can't, you know, you have to have an exam. We have to have an x rays and and so but that sparked this mindset of like, wait a second. Why are we saying no to people getting their teeth clean on the first visit. And and so we had this big meeting with our Hyginus and our doctors and said, hey, let's alter this. And so from that, literally that Friday on the pain, the bills, we said, you know what, let's change all new patients through hygiene. So that was like the first step. And then secondly, it was said if patients want to get their teeth cleaned on the first visit, let's clean their teeth. Why not? Why wouldn't we still do the exam? But then just add another hour for for cleaning. And you know, we went through all the Q&A about that and the concern and inevitably when I present this 100 hands and go, yeah, what about gum disease? What about gum disease? I mean, if you if you just tell the patient, Miss Jones, you got gum disease. I know you wanted your teeth cleaned, but great news. We have an hour. We can start your gum treatment. 00:09:32:09 - 00:09:35:04 Rob And if they don't come in? How are they ever going to know? 00:09:35:06 - 00:11:31:06 Marvin Right? And so this is all. It's not even about the cleaning. It's about saying yes and just getting them in the practice. That's in whatever it takes. And most patients don't even know what to ask. They're just like, I think I'm supposed to say, do I need to get my teeth clean? Like that's what they're just trying to ask? And so we just got in. Mr.. I mean, this mentality of, you know, let's just say, yes, get them in. They'll see we're different, they'll see who we are, and then we'll just do what we do. Well, then we started realizing, well, if we're saying no to that, what else are we saying no to? And we literally went to office Max or Office Depot and got a yellow notepad word wrote a big no on it. And anytime that we answer a question no in the practice, we would write down, you know, what the question was and just that we wrote no. And then at the next staff meeting, we would go over those questions and go, well, is this something we could ever say yes to? It's like. And so from that list of all those knows, we started coming up with, hey, what? Let's just start saying yes. And it became this yes mentality of just finding ways to say yes to our patients. I know so many times we tried to create an environment in our practice to get patients to say yes to treatment, but how many times are we saying no to that same treatment from the other end? Well, we started sharing that and we shared it with heartland, and all of a sudden heartland just took off. And not because of that. I mean, there's a bunch of reasons, but it was one of the things that catapulted the company to, to, to to do some really cool things because we it, you know, when one office is doing it, it's great when there's, you know, 2000 offices doing it, that's a, you know, that can really move the needle. And, and so we, I still teach it to this day. It's something we share with all of our new docs. And just here's how our mindset. And so that's that's the yes philosophy. But it's kind of crazy how it started. And now it's 00:11:31:06 - 00:11:34:23 Marvin people send these these posters like Godfather of Yes and all this stuff. It's kind of 00:11:34:28 - 00:11:36:01 Rob That's incredible. 00:11:36:04 - 00:11:46:23 Rob What are some other things you think are holding some doctors back from being what they could be like? What separates the White Tree doctors from being just the rest of the field? You think. 00:11:46:25 - 00:15:04:03 Marvin That's a great question. And it's something that's really shaped not only the way I've practiced, but the way I've taught dentistry, my career and I, I and it's, you know, I don't think it's clinical. I don't think it's clinical skills. I think I think every dentist has the skills for the most part, to do amazing dentistry because I see it. I think the biggest gap is this willingness to pursue excellence. I'm, you know, instead of settling into kind of this comfort, if you will. My favorite books is good to great. You know, we would think, what's the enemy of great? You would think bad or, you know, terrible or whatever. No, it's his premise is that it's good is going to be great. And and I think that's so true because I, I see this a lot. You know, average successes in dentistry can become. Decreases urgency, if you will. And, you know, how do I say in dentistry you can make a very good living being average? Okay. And that's kind of dangerous. You lose this urgency to grow, to to innovate, to to pursue excellence, if you will, because you're doing well. You're making if you will. Average kind of feels safe and, and there's but the doctors who really want or practices who really want to transform lives become create these incredible Dwight treat practices that will inspire teams to be the best they can be inspired. You know what they're partners and create. These legacy practices are those that really take it to another level. And it's not like their other dentist or bad dentists. They're they're incredible capable. They're hard working. But but there's just this drive that we see this willingness to to never stop refining yourself, refining your systems. You know, how can I get better? How can I be more efficient? How can I increase the patient experience in our practice? You know, never stop trying to make it better and better and better and, you know, and and even the others, the communication side, one of the big things that heartland we focus on is communication and leadership, not just the clinical aspect of it, but even in our practice, I think those are the things that it's this constant desire to to get better and better and better. And, and I think that's, you know, I think that's what separates top performers and average performers is that drive, if you will. And it's powerful. It's really powerful. I heard I mean, I love your podcast, by the way, and I was watching Jacob Burgers. I was watching Jake Jacob Berger's podcast, really friend of mine. And I love his mama mentality. It's so true. I mean, that's just that, you know, Toby's that that passion that he had, he get up at 4:00 in the morning and work, work, work, work to go to the to go then practice, you know. But I think that's that level that we should all aspire to. And, you know, whether we're in general dentistry or cosmetic dentistry or implants or whatever the case may be, you can take that and run with it. So that's, you know, kind of what I think it is, what I think that's what separates the, the, the white tree, if you will. If I had to say when we're refusing to become complacent, that's how I word it. That's a good I think I would put it that way. 00:15:04:06 - 00:15:04:17 Rob so being 00:15:04:17 - 00:15:05:01 Rob the 00:15:05:07 - 00:15:06:01 Rob static director 00:15:06:01 - 00:15:06:26 Rob for heartland, 00:15:06:29 - 00:15:08:13 Rob you really are trying to take 00:15:08:13 - 00:15:16:13 Rob the artistry of what we do with dentistry and systematize it. So how how was that process like, 00:15:16:16 - 00:15:35:25 Rob do you feel like there was a loss of some of the creativity? Like how do you take what is supposed to be a creative endeavor and turn it into a scientific process, and that can be systematized across hundreds of practices, like, what was that transformation like? How do you feel like there was a that it lost something? Did you gain something on the 00:15:36:02 - 00:15:36:09 Rob way. 00:15:36:15 - 00:16:15:28 Marvin Being the director of esthetics or we've created a program for our doctors to to learn cosmetic industry. And it's interesting, with all the advent of digital, you know, digital dentistry that we have, which is amazing. And and I love it. You still have to have the basics. You still have to have this understanding of smile design and facial and understand that. And so for me, the way I teach it and the way we teach and the way I've kind of created the program for heartland, if you will, and for I also have a porcelain veneer course that I teach 00:16:16:00 - 00:16:17:04 Marvin online course 00:16:17:07 - 00:17:11:01 Marvin the same philosophy there what we're trying to what I try to do is start with never missing a step. And there's a great another great book, just a simple book. It's called The Checklist Manifesto, but it's a great book. It's just a reminder of how important checklist our to do list, especially when in dentistry, when especially cosmetic dentistry or veneers. There are so many steps and to this day I still use a checklist on that because I can't afford to get to the end of a procedure and go, oh geez, we forgot to get a shade or I forgot to get a bite or I forgot to get a skip. Step 21 and now I'm on the skip. Step 47. Right now I'm like, oh geez, I gotta go all the way back. And so I can't afford to do that. So we I'm a big fan of checklist and to do list and just kind of following that and teaching that and making sure that we break down the diagnosis if you or not, this is the treatment planning, if you will, of of smiles. 00:17:11:04 - 00:17:11:14 Marvin 00:17:11:16 - 00:17:22:07 Rob Pilots run through a checklist before they get in that airplane. Why wouldn't you do that before you start cutting on teeth? It makes perfect sense to me. And that's what a great way to systematize that. 00:17:22:09 - 00:18:58:10 Marvin The cool thing about checklist is there's two things that I think in dentistry is, number one, you can create them in a non stressful environment. There's no hygiene checks or not. You know you're focused on the case, the patient, the results that you're after. And you can look at every step along the way. Okay this has to happen. This has to happen I mean obviously and but you're not stressed. You're not. Because you know when Monday morning happens, someone's going to have a crown that came off. Someone's going to had you is going to need a couple of exams. Emergency is going to walk in the door. You're going to get thrown for a loop or two. That's the world we live in. And if you get off your game and like where you know where it can be really detrimental to the patient that's there in your chair is going to be there all day. And so, yeah, I'm a big, big, big fan of checklist. And it's a simple process. And especially for big cases where you just you can't afford to miss something like that. And it's so yeah you're right. And I love flying too. So it's kind of where I got the idea as well, because it's no matter if you're a pilot for a little Cessna or for American Airlines, you check your plane, you go, you walk it, you look at it, you go through, you always check your flaps and your rudder and you just always do. That's just how you roll. And so, yeah, it's how we operate in dentistry too. And it saved me so many times. I can't tell you where something I would have saw. I saw it on the list and I forgot all about that. Yeah I need to do that step. And so but that's why we do it. So he had good question. That's glad we started talking about that because that can really help people out. 00:18:58:13 - 00:19:00:15 Marvin what's it been like passing this on to other then 00:19:00:21 - 00:20:02:22 Marvin cutting into this new philosophy to working with heartland and being a mentor and sharing this with literally thousands of dentists coming into the field. It's been it's it's one of my other than cosmetic dentistry. It's my next passion, without a doubt. And, and the great thing about the doctors at heartland is that they're already there's a different level, there's a different mentality there, because you can't just call Harlan and go, hey, I want you to, you know, be Harlan dog. There's a you gotta you gotta have your ducks in a row. You have a successful office, six operators. You got to be producing. You got to be. There's some a bar that's just already a level. So we're dealing with docs who want to get better, and which is awesome because someone wants to get better. They're my kind of people. And we're so focused on continue education. I think last year I saw a stat, I was just talking to him yesterday that heartland offered over 1300 courses. Last year 00:20:02:22 - 00:20:04:00 Marvin on. 00:20:04:02 - 00:21:11:23 Marvin That's in one company. Yeah. 1300 and. There's not anything you can't learn. You can learn how to play some plants. And I mean from the best of the best. I have an implant continuum. We have a set of continuum. We have a endo continuum. If you learn how to do root canals, the best indigenous in, in, in the country come together and we just cherry pick the very best of the best. But every clinical procedure, and I think more importantly, equally important is every leadership and. Communication. I think our communications class is truly one of the best. I mean, it's it's world class, it's Tony Robbins esque world class, and we all go through it and understand about how important communication is and leadership. And I think that's one of the things that that really separates the heartland dentists from the average dentist is that focus on communication and leadership and not just what we do with our hands, but what we do with our mind. And then how do we make create a better, you know, better practice for our patients, which is what it's ultimately ultimately about. 00:21:11:24 - 00:21:12:03 Rob Doctor 00:21:12:05 - 00:21:12:19 Rob Elvis, 00:21:12:19 - 00:21:46:04 Rob was a guest of a few episodes back, was touching on this quite a bit. So he was inspired by you. Is the photography aspect of it as a communication tool, not as just showing off the work? I mean, I see all the see the photography lighting stuff in the background behind you there can can you speak a little bit to what led you that direction and how how to use it as a communication tool between the the practice and the laboratory, where that where that comes together, what what the difference is between having those tools and not between using that philosophy and leaving it on the side. 00:21:46:06 - 00:22:02:25 Marvin You know, I'm so glad you brought that up, because this is truly one of my passions. And and I love talking about it. I back in one year before Covid and it weird how we say that when you remember things during Covid, but yeah 2019. 00:22:02:28 - 00:22:05:17 Rob On the right. I mean that's a pretty big marker on the calendar. 00:22:05:18 - 00:22:18:26 Marvin Yeah. Unfortunately it is. But I created I wanted to create there's a need there's a huge need for photography in dentistry. So I created a course dental com I've now incorporated into my porcelain veneer course porcelain veneer. Com. 00:22:18:28 - 00:24:18:27 Marvin saw there was a need. And so I literally created an online course and did just tens of thousands of dentists. How to take pictures, how to because you have to learn to. You just can't go through dentistry, especially cosmetic dentistry, without taking photos. Let me take this a step back. When we do a new patient exam with our patients, I rarely look at X-rays. I look at them from me, but I don't look at them with the patients. When we look on the screen, we have monitors by the patient. I just pull up pictures. We always because patients can see that they they can see a crack. They can see an understanding that we need photography to communicate with our patients better. That's where this initially started. And then is my passion with cosmetic dentistry. I had to be able to share with my lab. Here's what I'm seeing. This is exactly what I say. Look at this corner. Look at this. How this the shade of this tooth is different than the shade of this, too. And so we needed to be able to really communicate well with our, our, our labs. In my mind, you have to understand how camera works. And we've tried everything. We tried the iPhone, we tried point and shoot cameras. We tried everything that we could possibly do. But ultimately you need a good camera. You need a DSLR camera, you need a macro lens, you need a flash. It's just if you're going to take pictures in an office. And and so I just walked into this, how to do that, how to set that up. And then what settings on your camera to take close up pictures. What settings to take portraits. It's two different settings. It's a lock them through that. And teaching photography, especially through the cosmetic part of our practices or my practice, has been massive because it allows one it it allows you to post on social media, which you have to do now. You can't you can't be a cosmetic dentist or you can, but you can't be successful. And if you're not sure, yeah, it's you know, we get 80%, 85% of our patients come from social media. It's not even 85. 00:24:18:27 - 00:24:21:06 Rob Percent of your patients come from social media. 00:24:21:08 - 00:24:23:26 Marvin 85. It's that's staggering. And that's 00:24:24:01 - 00:24:29:14 Marvin very steady. That's not like a blip on the radar. It's it's Instagram, TikTok 00:24:29:17 - 00:24:31:26 Marvin to a degree, our website. 00:24:31:28 - 00:24:34:26 Marvin They found our website through social media. Regardless 00:24:34:26 - 00:24:37:26 Marvin what I've seen over the years, and this is sad, 00:24:37:26 - 00:25:04:29 Marvin is that there's some amazing clinicians out there. I mean, doctors I know that have hands, amazing hands, beautiful dentistry, but their photography is sloppy and it looks like they're sloppy. And it's, you know, they're out of focus. There's maybe little blood in the picture or whatever, just something that I know. If the average person sees that, they're going to be like, oh, I don't want to go there. And Elvis is the I mean, his photography is off the charts. He doesn't crazy cool stuff. 00:25:05:01 - 00:25:17:20 Marvin He'll have photography day in his office and lips all sparkly and everything. And I don't go to that extreme, but the the basics of it is that we, you know, every patient comes into our practice, 00:25:17:23 - 00:25:29:17 Marvin gets an FM full series of photos and photos that are perfect, like in focus, cropped properly. Then we put them in dense drink so that when they're in interest, they look good. They're 00:25:29:20 - 00:25:34:03 Marvin they're in the right order there and where we can talk to our patients and share with what's going 00:25:34:09 - 00:25:34:22 Marvin on. And 00:25:34:26 - 00:25:42:23 Marvin what we've found is patients who can see their dentistry so much, you know, we'll move forward with their dental work when they can own 00:25:42:27 - 00:25:43:09 Marvin it. 00:25:43:12 - 00:25:46:13 Marvin Instead of me just telling them, hey, you've got a crack in there or whatever you've 00:25:46:20 - 00:25:47:15 Marvin got, 00:25:47:18 - 00:25:53:09 Marvin you know, whatever situation going, when they just look at it, we look at it together and go, well, there it is. And 00:25:53:12 - 00:25:55:00 Marvin so 00:25:55:03 - 00:25:57:26 Marvin it's a, it's a it's crazy though, 00:25:57:29 - 00:25:58:19 Marvin that 00:25:58:21 - 00:26:02:10 Marvin you would think everyone would be like, I'm going to go buy a camera, I'm going to get you out of 00:26:02:12 - 00:26:02:18 Marvin it. 00:26:02:23 - 00:26:07:00 Marvin But it didn't happen. And I don't know why I still struggle with it. 00:26:07:02 - 00:26:22:11 Rob I think I think a lot of doctors and probably from from what I've seen, I think a lot of doctors and their staff are shy about taking pictures. It's just it feels alien to them and they're almost afraid. Maybe not the right word, 00:26:22:14 - 00:26:22:23 Rob but 00:26:22:26 - 00:26:30:03 Rob they're just unsure, uneasy about the prospect of like, I don't know, get the patient's front of this camera and I'm not a good photographer. 00:26:30:09 - 00:26:30:16 Rob And 00:26:30:16 - 00:26:32:13 Rob what do I know about photography? 00:26:32:16 - 00:26:33:12 Rob 00:26:33:15 - 00:26:42:09 Rob But it's from from the lab perspective anyway, it's been one of the most powerful and helpful things that has been introduced since. 00:26:42:12 - 00:26:47:29 Rob I'd say internal scanning obviously is huge, huge jump forward. I mean, without a doubt, especially color 00:26:48:02 - 00:26:48:14 Rob scanning. 00:26:48:17 - 00:27:21:00 Rob But then you combine that with the photographic aspect of it and you have a completely different way to reference reference the case. I mean, you have you suddenly it's like you were saying before, it's not just teeth, this is a person. Well, what are these teeth supposed to look like? Well, it's a face look like, what is this person going through, you know. And so what do you think that I mean, you've worked with labs quite a bit and you've seen both sides of the camp. What do you think that labs wish the dentist understood about the creative process and about the communication pipeline? Okay. 00:27:21:07 - 00:27:33:22 Marvin Wow, what a great question. That's really good. And, you know, I'm very fortunate. I work with some of the best labs in the country. 00:27:33:25 - 00:27:36:03 Marvin Lee Culp with Sculpture Studios is 00:27:36:03 - 00:27:38:02 Marvin we do a lot of cases together. Lee right now. 00:27:38:02 - 00:27:44:08 Marvin I remember back in the 90s, I didn't even have a camera and I was doing cosmetic dentistry, a lot of cosmetic industry, which is kind of sad that that was the 00:27:44:16 - 00:27:45:06 Marvin case. 00:27:45:08 - 00:27:52:02 Marvin But I remember when we started taking photos and I had the ability to share that with lapses, just like what you just 00:27:52:10 - 00:27:52:22 Marvin said. 00:27:52:26 - 00:27:59:01 Marvin Now they could see a patient the, the they could understand the relationship part of this. There's actually a person there, 00:27:59:04 - 00:28:00:17 Marvin a person behind these 00:28:00:20 - 00:28:01:00 Marvin teeth 00:28:01:00 - 00:28:04:12 Marvin with with a reason for getting this smile that you can share. 00:28:04:15 - 00:28:10:22 Marvin It's improved our communication with our labs so much. Heck, I take on average about 100 pictures a day 00:28:10:25 - 00:28:31:02 Marvin and I don't take our new patient photos in our practice, only take pictures of smiles and stuff. But I'm constantly, constantly taking photos of what I want to show with my lab, or what I want to remind myself or what I want to. I do use a lot for teaching, but I do. I download them every night and it's a it's a huge I mean, I have a eight terabyte hard photo. 00:28:31:05 - 00:28:32:05 Rob There's a lot of pictures. 00:28:32:06 - 00:28:40:18 Marvin It starts adding up. Yeah, it really is. But I can't imagine not having them. And the other thing Rob, that's been really cool about this 00:28:40:21 - 00:28:59:18 Marvin is I've become so much better clinician because of my photography. You know, when you see your preps looking through a loop, you're like, oh yeah, look pretty good or whatever. When you see it on a, you know, a 36 inch monitor and you're looking at your number eight by itself. You're like, she's always like a little bumps and you realize, 00:28:59:20 - 00:29:02:12 Marvin well, I can, I can, I can do a lot better. 00:29:02:15 - 00:29:16:11 Marvin And it's made my dentistry so much better because I know I'm going to be looking at it magnified times. A thousand of you will. And there's some pride in, you know, sending this to my lab knowing that. Hey. Oh, no, 00:29:16:14 - 00:29:21:11 Marvin I think there's this. I think the better you seen, the better work, the better prep, she said. The better work you get 00:29:21:14 - 00:29:21:20 Marvin back. 00:29:21:23 - 00:29:23:00 Marvin If I was in. 00:29:23:03 - 00:29:27:21 Rob My so old engineering philosophy. Garbage in, garbage out. 00:29:27:24 - 00:29:33:25 Marvin Yeah. And so I want to make sure that I'm sitting in my very best. Well, sometimes I thought I was sending my very best. 00:29:33:28 - 00:29:39:24 Marvin And when I started taking getting real serious about photography and capturing all my preps and all 00:29:39:27 - 00:29:40:07 Marvin this, 00:29:40:10 - 00:29:44:24 Marvin pretty much every step that I do every day, even to this day, 37 years in, 00:29:44:26 - 00:29:49:17 Marvin still do this. And I'm still tweaking, you know, like, look at that. I can round that corner a little better or 00:29:49:20 - 00:29:50:11 Marvin whatever 00:29:50:13 - 00:29:55:21 Marvin it I think that's one of the reasons when we see our cases, they just fall right in place because, you know, I know I'm 00:29:55:24 - 00:29:56:04 Marvin getting 00:29:56:06 - 00:30:00:04 Marvin there a game and because they know how serious I am about 00:30:00:07 - 00:30:00:19 Marvin this. 00:30:00:19 - 00:30:08:02 Marvin And so it's been indirectly a really big plus in my in our practice for that as well. 00:30:08:05 - 00:30:13:01 Marvin Teaching photography is it's a challenge. I wish I could say it was just, oh yeah, I can show them this, 00:30:13:06 - 00:30:14:26 Marvin but 00:30:14:29 - 00:30:32:15 Marvin it's a never ending journey. But I'm I'm staying on it, I'm staying on it, and it's getting better and better and better. Fortunately, with our scanners and our color scanners, like you said, it's getting better. And I think eventually we'll be able to use an iPhone or Android. I think it will be able to use the phone for photos. 00:30:32:18 - 00:30:33:01 Marvin 00:30:33:04 - 00:30:51:05 Marvin It's just not there yet. And it's crazy, I think. I don't know why we feel so comfortable picking up a phone and taking a picture, but feel uncomfortable picking up a big camera and taking pictures. But but we do. And so I got to get people over that hump. But we'll get there. We'll get that. 00:30:51:07 - 00:31:02:07 Rob Different familiarity. I mean, you're used to the phone. You use it every day, people. I mean, the first thing a lot of people look at when they wake up, it's the last thing they look at for they go to sleep. Wears a DSLR is a piece of equipment, right? 00:31:02:10 - 00:31:03:14 Marvin It's a great point. 00:31:03:16 - 00:32:00:18 Rob To your point earlier. You're having the right lenses in the right settings. You don't have those settings and lenses on on your iPhone or on your on your Galaxy phone, where you can have like the 105 millimeter lens and get that right perspective on it. You can't it's much more difficult to mount that to a tripod. And the other aspect of it is just simply the fact that it's heavier, less, you know, less familiar interface. So I think it seems intimidating to a lot of folks, but it is it's incredibly important. And but the other aspect of it, like you were saying before, is frankly, any pictures are better than no pictures. One of my favorite things to receive is a three shade tabs next to one tooth in one picture because, you know, it's like, well, it's kind of an A2. And that's what they wrote on the script. It's like, okay, that's super helpful. First is having like, okay, well here it is a to a three and A35 all kind of clustered around it like, and you can kind of figure out where this is supposed to, supposed to land, you know with. 00:32:00:18 - 00:32:01:16 Marvin This I love that. 00:32:01:16 - 00:32:25:19 Rob And and so speaking of, one of the things I really liked that you said was that you're always evolving, always adding new workflows to this and changing with it. What are some of the things that you've really fundamentally changed from when you sort of first entered this from E-40 to now? Like, what are some of the new tools you really like? What are some techniques that you've kind of leaned away from or really leaned into over time? 00:32:25:22 - 00:32:28:14 Marvin Another great question, I love this. This is awesome. Yeah. 00:32:28:17 - 00:32:32:08 Rob It's great to talk to you. You have a fascinating perspective and such a cool experience. So. 00:32:32:16 - 00:32:44:10 Marvin You know, when I look at cosmetic dentistry, there's some major shifts. First of all, materials have gotten so much better and better. Better. Back in the 90s, it was feldspars. We evolved 00:32:44:10 - 00:32:45:17 Marvin little prettier. Empress 00:32:45:19 - 00:32:48:21 Marvin Then that evolved to lithium silica Emax 00:32:48:21 - 00:32:49:22 Marvin to zirconia, 00:32:49:22 - 00:33:20:05 Marvin And then on top of that we've got multi-layer zirconia that we can now bond. And so one of the cool things that we have to recognize is that the materials have gotten so much better, stronger, prettier, more durable, you know, when now the focus on conservative dentistry versus, you know, back in the 90s we were way over prepping. It was awful. I mean, way over prepping. And but that's how we were just what we did, we had to give the manufacturer told. 00:33:20:05 - 00:33:33:22 Rob Us we had the other end of that on the lab and like, and my mother was one of those where I was like, I had to do a full mouth reconstruction with her a few years back. And man, some of the preps that were left over there was just like, well, what do you even do with this? 00:33:33:24 - 00:33:48:06 Marvin Yeah. And you can't prep them and, and but we, you know, and I think I don't want to blame anything, but we know the manufacturer said you got to have one almost 1.5mm reductions for our anterior crown. I mean, that's what we did. So what we were taught. 00:33:48:14 - 00:33:50:00 Rob You needed more room with metal. 00:33:50:05 - 00:36:02:28 Marvin Yeah. You had. Exactly. And so anyway, I think the evolution to more conservative dentistry has been phenomenal. And our ability to go thinner and thinner, less reduction saving animal has been Invisalign to set up our veneers. Now because we have I get so many patients, potential patients literally coming in saying I won't veneers, but I don't want you prepping about what can we do? And sometimes they're, you know, class two. There's no way I can not prep your teeth unless we move them. And so Invisalign has helped us give us another avenue where we don't have to always prep teeth. And so combining Invisalign, we do a lot of multidisciplinary cases in our practice where my partner, Doctor Callison, will set them up with midline. Then I'll do veneers. And sometimes my other partner, Doctor Lynch, will place implants and then we'll we'll all work together in a group practice. But it's that still we're evolving to a more conservative dentistry. And then just ultimately I've gotten better. I mean I've, I look at where I was 37 years ago and you know, I did you don't know what you don't know, but it's we're we're continually evolving to understand facial analysis. And so when you combine all those little things, it's just so much better for our patients. They're getting better products, better Asian, you know, better looking smiles better us I mean everything about it I think is moving our something where I think 20 years from now we can look back at 2026 and go, hey, we did. We were doing things pretty cool right then. I think we we weren't damaging like we were back in the 90s. I hope we can say that. But but and then, you know, also to a lesser but we really do look at facial analysis, whereas I didn't I didn't really look at the face early on. I do now really, really look at how is this going to fit. How's this smell going to really fit this person. So but like also said, we're constantly evolving. There's going to be something if we have this conversation here for now, we'll probably have something else. I'll say, hey, this happened. And so but that's the joy of it because we're all learning and the technology is getting better. The material, everything's getting better and better, better. And so it's a fun journey. I love being on it. I love being on it. 00:36:03:00 - 00:36:15:00 Rob There's never been a better time before for Same day than history. I mean, from 3D printing with either the Sprint pros and the Midas and all these other systems that are available. I'm a clerk at Execute Insights, announced 00:36:15:02 - 00:36:31:27 Rob top tier zirconia that centers in three hours, which is crazy. So speaking of exotic, so you're saying you have in your clinic, do you use it for the true Smile Simulator videos and Smile creator propositions? 00:36:32:00 - 00:37:49:03 Marvin We're I'll tell you, we're just getting started with that. We've had it for a year or so where we just use it really to on our all index cases to to receive the designs back from the labs and really kind of place it so that we can kind of maneuver things. I I'll be perfectly honest, I was a little gun shy to me. It was a little non dental friendly. How do I say that. More more lab user friendly than it was dentist user friendly. And I think that was my it wasn't the fault. It was my fault because I just didn't take the time to learn it. And so this last the last day ACD meeting, I went to 2 to 3 different classes on CAD. Like I've got to learn this. And so I'm just now kind of learning where, hey, I can sit down and design a case. And so I really I'm getting there and I've finally made a decision in 2026. I'm going to learn Excel, get I'm going to learn how to or I'm not dependent on someone else to do my designs. And and so at this stage right there, I'm not there yet. I still work on it, but I'm beginning to where I really like it a lot. It's, it's but it's a little it's a lot. There's a lot of moving parts. 00:37:49:04 - 00:38:44:07 Rob It is, it is. It can be a lot and it can be intimidating. The it's sort of it kind of goes back to like what we're talking about with the DSLR. It's not something that you're familiar with using every day. It sounds to me, though, from what you've described about your own philosophy and your own approach to it. And one of the things I really love that I've heard you say before is that the that the lips or the frame of the smile, you know, if you, if it's a, if it's a canvas, then the lips of the frame. And one of the things that I've really enjoyed about the smile creator with CAD is that I can take these pictures at the clinic provides me, and align that with the oral scan, and then create an entire smile design based on that before we even touch the patient, you know, and a lot of this stuff with like you were saying, the not the less invasive dentistry, the no prep veneers, which they come incredibly popular lately and the new technology is more conducive to that. Yeah, it seems like it would play hand in hand with that. 00:38:44:08 - 00:38:46:13 Marvin So yeah, that's it. 00:38:46:13 - 00:38:50:01 Rob I'm encouraging that journey and anything I can do to help, I'm here for. 00:38:50:04 - 00:39:06:02 Marvin I appreciate it. I'm excited about learning and I really, really am. And more of it was just the buttons. What you know, what does this button. Do you know what kind of I bring a case in, how I set it up. And you know, I know what a two supposed to look like. It's just moving the. And I'm a Photoshop junkie, too. I love Photoshop, so I. 00:39:06:04 - 00:39:55:22 Rob Think that's a great comparison. So that's kind of where I got some of my start as I was in graphic design and Photoshop and excellent have a lot in common in the, in so many levels of comparison, because not only the level of complexity that's there or simplicity depending on how you want to approach it. But also there's the aspect of there's not just one way to do things. There's with with both, there's usually at least two, sometimes four ways to do things. And which way is the right way is kind of up to how you like to do it. And. Great point. Speaking of the type of things, there's there's lots of ways to approach the industry. How do you kind of silo that down into something you mentor the heartland doctors to like, have all the infinite possibilities of ways to approach cosmetics? How did you choose what the what your approach is to to teach? 00:39:55:25 - 00:44:35:09 Marvin Well, the way we did it, the way we've kind of combined it, if you will, is number one, we we start with small design and understand that the basics of small design is small design, and it's not. If you put away the computers, put away and put away everything and just let's look at the basics of small design and make sure that we all understand that. And that's kind of where we start. Everything is just basic. And so the the exact small design that we teach at the ACD is the same small design we teach and just kind of understand that, that we're all on the same page with length, width ratios and embrasures and line angles and understanding line eagles can make such a big difference in our in the width of a tooth. And just learning about connectors and all those things that we that we ACD is kind of embedded with us. But those are just the basics that we all have to get. So that's number one is an understanding of your basic small design. And once we get to that, for us, what we do is we realize we need a patient. So what heartland we have the ascetic continuum. And our set of continuum is a live, patient hands on where we have doctors. That's typically their first veneer case. They get partnered with a mentor, and they walk through their very first case with a mentor, hand by hand in hand. Design the case, send it to the lab. The lab designs it, they send it back. And then we have regional workshops where that patient gets veneers. And so we have we have host mentors and we have mentors and our mentors. We'll, we'll we'll have the patient back. And typically our mentors will prep half the mouth, the students will prep the other half. And then they're there with constantly they're with a mentor. So their very first case, we have someone there the whole time walking them through step by step by step, an entire checklist of the whole process. And we found that to be the best way because it's not just teaching it, which we teach it, we teach smiles at it and we teach. Here's how we prep, here's how we see, here's the materials go. We go through the didactic portion of it. But then we found that if you take that and then apply it to a patient and do one, then all of a sudden the mind opens up and says, okay, we can do this, I can we can do this. And we usually have them do one case and then have a second case to be done in their office the following Monday or Tuesday, kind of gets that flywheel going. And so we we and we found that that introduces it. Well it it helps them with all their questions because they get they get to see typically you know, 9 to 13 gets prepped by the the mentor doctor and the negative prep for through eight. And with the guy with the with the doctor right there with them and walking through, you know, tweaking it and still learning environment. And so that ascetic continuum has been a massive training program for our doctors and understand because if you understand smiles, if you understand veneers and smile design, your dentures are going to be better, your implants are going to be better, your interior restorations are going to be better. You know, there's so many applications to understanding smile design. It's not just veneers and your full mouth rehab, I mean everything, I mean so many things that you do in dentistry, you have to have a really good understanding of smile design, even all on X. I mean, if you still got to know where these teeth fit together. And so we found that that the dentists that go through the continuum excel in their all index cases, excel in their, you know, all of their dentistry is better because they have a better understanding of the entire smile design process and how how teeth are supposed to look and how they're supposed to function. I think it would be even more and then how they can apply it in their practices. And we try to do that as well, because we literally walk them through their very first case, hold in their hand. Here's how we do it. And they can do that a continuum year after year after year, they don't have to do it was not a one and done is they can. And we have a lot of doctors that will come back next year and come back next year. This is their third or fourth one and they're like, okay, now I'm getting it. But I love it. And it's it's just a great way to learn. I would have given anything that had this back when I was doing this, because it was just me in an office by myself and my lab tech and, you know, calling him on the phone and hoping that this works. But anyway, that's how we do it, and we continue to do it that way. And it's been very successful for our doctors, for sure. 00:44:35:10 - 00:46:34:09 Rob Very working with real cases. I mean, that's not to be crass, but kind of takes balls and also that that really brings it into into reality because, well, just take a little detour. My, my own personal experience coming into this originally was that when some of the newer digital tech, like 15 years ago, started to creep into the industry and I had I was fumbling around and not going to college really is wasting spending my time, not in school and working part time with my my dad and his lab supply business. And this tech started to creep in and I thought, I kind of figured it out right on my own. And I was working with like, training data. And then I had these old school lab texts and come in and be like, oh, that looks really cool. Can you show me how it works? And I'd show them how it works. Like, wow, Rob, that's fascinating. And the next thing you know, they come in a week later with a real case and they're like, can we work through this one case? I might want to buy this. And I sit down and we scan the case and I get started and I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing because is the training data versus the real world actual patient right there. It's never going to be the same, as you know, either look at what you have online or what you have in the training information versus having a real live patient with real situations. And again, thankfully and thank you, God, I had a lot of a lot of old school lab techs who wanted to learn what I knew about the tech and would sit there with me side by side. We would walk through these cases kind of like you were talking about. So using a real patient and having a mentor side by side with you, that's powerful. When how did you how did you decide to make that leap, and when did you come to the conclusion that we really need to have real patients here to have this esthetic continuum be effective and go from being just like another course to something that you can be hands on with. And I mean, clearly the results speak for themselves. 00:46:34:12 - 00:49:13:01 Marvin Yeah. Well, it originally started with the whole pack live concept when we all went through that back in the 90s, where we would do a case and it was interesting. We were, you know, they had they had a version of it at here in Dallas at Baylor, and that's kind of where it was. And then it actually started before I was at heartland. My one of my dear friends, Doctor Anna Singh, truly one of the most gifted clinicians on the planet in just the sweetest person. She this was she also was very into cosmetic industry, and she actually had started the esthetic continuum back early on before I affiliated. I think I feel they didn't know eight and she started it back in zero five or oh six. So it was kind of it was kind of going back then we would actually see what it would bring a patient to Illinois at Portland headquarters and, and literally prep them there in an office. And we evolved into regional workshops. But it started with doctor saying, and then I kind of she kind of saw my passion, and she kind of passed the torch on to me. And I've had it for forever and ever. And so that's that's how it started. And I it's just continuing now. It's a whole I have a whole team of, of people that we work together with at heartland and we're underway right now. We literally started it last Friday. We had our first all day virtual class where we start with small design, just like I just said. And then the the, the workshop part, we call it a regional workshops where we see patients that starts next month and it'll be all over it. You know, we'll have doctors from all over the country working at various workshops. And so it's powerful, you know, and like you said, there's every case is going to have a challenge. And it's so nice to have a partner or a mentor to ask him or her, hey, what do we do? You know, didn't see this coming. You know what? I wasn't on the x ray. And so just having that extra, you know, person to talk to and the comfort level that you don't have to stress about it. And then I'm involved in pretty much every case I see every case. And so I put my $0.02 in as well. And we have a whole group of us like myself who kind of oversee. So it's layers of mentoring that we can help out. And what's cool at heartland, we do that for implants. We do. I mean, for there's a lot of continuum we have, we do for all surgery. And so we've just found that hands on training is really where you, you learn. I mean, we we know that you can read a book and learn how to do something, but once it's once it starts bleeding, you know, it's okay. Better fix it. I better know what I'm doing. 00:49:13:03 - 00:49:16:19 Rob Yeah. Can't read a book and ride a bike. 00:49:16:21 - 00:49:20:09 Marvin I like that. Yeah, that's very well said. 00:49:20:12 - 00:49:29:29 Rob If there's a if there's anything from this that you want doctors or labs to take away from the conversation, if you could just impart 1 or 2 things, what do you think that would be? 00:49:29:29 - 00:52:45:08 Marvin just be careful that digital dentistry doesn't fix bad fundamentals. We still have to know the basics. We still have to understand smile design, and especially in cosmetic dentistry, and the digital workflows that we're seeing can become overwhelming at times, especially to doctors like myself with White air, you know, trying to understand, you know, digital dentistry should should simplify dentistry, not complicated. And I think for a lot of doctors it's complicated. And doctors Phil Barry, they feel, you know, that there's this learning curve that they don't know how to even accomplish at this part of their career. However, if you've got strong fundamentals and understand occlusion and understand smile design, take the time to learn the digital aspect of dentistry. The digital dentistry is going to make your life so much better when applied in a proper, proper way. That's the best thing I can say now. When we talk about digital dentistry, we do our designs and what have you. But I'll tell you the number one thing that I do in my practice that gets people to do move forward with veneers is nothing digital. We do a smile test drive where we literally build. I have we set aside an hour on our consults and I'll just build with with composite and just build temporaries on their teeth. I tell you about five minutes per tooth and just show them what veneers can look like. Nothing digital and they literally hand them a mirror. They wear them for the afternoon, then they take them off, and we've got a system in place where we can do it in about five minutes per two. That takes about an hour, but instantly they have veneers and they can see it don't have to be perfect. They don't have to be, you know, Arctic quality. They just have to be big and white because that's what they want. And we've found that that smile test drive has been the most powerful thing, because they mean we can show them pictures of teeth, we can show them eyes and is getting so crazy how wild it can accurate it can be. But when you hit a patient, a mirror and they're looking at them selves with a new smile that an hour ago they didn't have no shots, no nothing, you know, and just a simple little composite build up on the teeth. If you do it properly and just set it up, you polish it and you know, it's powerful. And that's been one of the things that has one of the reasons that we do so many smiles was because that's the that's the key. And that's nothing digital. That's just willingness to take an hour every time. Invest in your patients. I don't even charge for it. I just do it so they can see what it'll look like. But I know when I do it that nine out of ten are going to move forward with veneers. And so it's a it's a powerful thing to learn. And so it's one of the in my course I teach this a lot like this is something that can change your practice in. So again digital is great but also just understanding of the basics and a willingness to to to show patients what they can look like and realize. As we talked about to Rob that we're dealing with people. These are you take your loops off you know meet this person. What are they going through? What what will this smile do for them. And it's when you know that it it changes your mentality. So if I had to say one thing, just know your patients and have a great support team around you. That would be another thing. I'm so blessed. I. 00:52:45:14 - 00:52:48:11 Marvin and I got to give thanks to to my wife and she 00:52:48:14 - 00:53:26:06 Marvin you know she the long hours the up here working on smiles and and you know she's always there and bouncing ideas off of her and and so it's you need a partner and we've been married 35 years now and so yeah big thanks to her for giving me the, the support that I needed to do this and to be a part of it. And it's been an amazing journey and I'm still on it. And I love being a part of this. Rob, this is you guys are doing great things with your podcast and I'm just honored to be a part of it. This has been really cool. I really do. Thank you for the invitation and let me share this a little bit of what I do. 00:53:26:09 - 00:53:50:20 Rob Thank you so much for being a part of it, man. This is this has been a fascinating conversation. I've thoroughly enjoyed exploring your experience here. And again, I really like what you had to say there with the digital is awesome. And being a tech guy and having had that been what drew me into this, it's good to remember. It's got to keep it focused. The fundamentals are where it's at, if that's the core of it, regardless of what tools you're using. 00:53:50:22 - 00:53:53:13 Marvin So cool. Very true, very true. 00:53:53:15 - 00:54:06:15 Rob Doctor Berlin, thank you so much for being a part of this. This was this was a lot of fun. Where can people find you online? Where can they find the McKinney dentist, the continuum, all this stuff, your social media, where can they where can they look you up? 00:54:06:17 - 00:54:13:20 Marvin Yeah. For anyone wanting a smile, just the Berlin smile. Com is the best place. That's where we virtual consults 00:54:13:26 - 00:54:19:06 Marvin I have an online porcelain veneer course that we have almost 2000 members worldwide now. 00:54:19:06 - 00:54:22:23 Marvin and as another website prep list of New York. Com 00:54:23:00 - 00:55:05:04 Marvin we do of course typically once or twice a year. We haven't set our next one up for the fall, but our next one be in the fall. And then on social media I'm just at Doctor Marvin Berlin on Instagram and TikTok. And please, if you follow me, send me a DM so I can follow you. I love following, only follow dentist and dental labs and things. I don't follow a bunch of other stuff. And so it's my chance to meet who's out there and so just shoot me demons so I know who to follow back. And I would appreciate it. And I love seeing my fellow dentist out there and what they can do. But yeah, Rob, thanks for this invite. This has been great. I can't wait to to be a part of you ever need anything in the future? Man, just give me a shout. I'm here for you guys. 00:55:05:09 - 00:55:23:13 Rob Absolutely. Likewise. Thank you so much. And thank you, everyone for joining us for this episode of Evolution of Dental Podcast. 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