Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome back to the Evolution of Dental podcast, where we share the stories of the people and the technology shaping the world of dentistry. Brought to you by Evolution Dental Science. I'm your host, Rob Norton.
Today we're joined by Vicki Thomas, founder of the Savvy Dental Group and a pioneer for the small labs in this world. Welcome, Vicki. How are you?
[00:00:27] Speaker A: I'm doing well, I hope you are. Thank you for having me!
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Thank you for being a part of this! So you jumped into this, in 1996. Is that right?
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I started my lab in 1996 ish. No, I take that back. I worked at a lab in 96, and I was there for a few years. I've been in the industry for about 31 years now, but I've owned my own lab for 17. Yes, I've been in it for a minute, it’s telling my age.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: So you started your own lab and you leapt right into a group buying things? Well, tell me about Savvy. How did that come to be?
[00:01:03] Speaker A: Savvy was later in my career Savvy is not even, barely a year old. I launched it last year at Chicago Lab Day.
So Savvy is a buying group for small to medium sized laboratories. My goal was to help bridge that gap between the small mom and pop, privately owned laboratories and the large corporate laboratories. Basically, I've gone out and negotiated all the pricing and discounts for my members. So when you look at the vendors of providers that I have, it's basically not everyone, but basically who you would see if you went to a trade show. You've got your implant companies, your distributors, your digital design. You've got, I mean, everything you possibly need to run a laboratory down to the website design, collections, credit card processing, everything that you need to make a laboratory run is what Savvy is about.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: So the whole spectrum, how does that change the world for the labs that you work with? Like, what's the member experience like joining Savvy?
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, to join is very simple. Just go on to savvylabsolutions.com. And there's a couple questions I ask. I like to know what size lab you have. Are you analog, digital, all the things I ask all the questions. That way I can help direct the vendors to them, because I don't want to send a distributor that sells porcelain to a removable lab if they're not usable. So I try to do a little questionnaire, so once they do that they can sign up, and they get a username and password and then they're able to see who the vendors are. What kind of discounts I yeah. So that part's pretty easy.
But I have seen a lot of success stories through it. There's been a few that actually a lot of them are new labs. And I helped, able to get them, like, with a financial group to be able to get, you know, financing for their new lab, and just not knowing how to fill out a simple, you know, like, you have an implant case and you've never done digital before. Like, how do you fill out your 3shape work ticket? Like, I feel like I do a lot of consulting and stuff as well for this for Savvy, and I love it because it's a passion of mine. And you know what? My next case. I may have not done it either. And I'm gonna have to ask somebody the same question, so please reach out. So yeah, I try to be a consultant, a friend, and just help share what little bit of knowledge I may have that might benefit them. Yeah.
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, that sounds like a lot more than just a buying group then. So you're, so it sounds like you're leveraging some of your own experience going into this as a small lab owner, right?
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Yes. And, you know, you go on these large platforms and you, you know, when you're a small lab, you’re kind of intimidated to ask these questions openly on a Facebook forum. And, you know, just kind of like gosh, they’re gonna think I'm an idiot. They're going to look down on me if I ask this question. But, you know, what? If you've never done it, you don't know. And you just have to ask. Everybody had to learn and had to start from somewhere, so I do. I try to just let them know that this is a safe place. I've started a... For my members, you can go and join. It’s Stay Savvy, it's a Facebook group. So you can go in there and just members can talk to each other. So if they’re having trouble with their sintering furnace or, you know, how do you enter a work ticket like on 3shape, like you can ask whatever questions and it's a safe zone. Or they can call me personally.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: That's amazing. I notice that you mentioned that you touched on, like payment processing and financing. I think that that's something that's pretty, everyone looks at the big picture with the equipment, the technology, which of course is one of my favorites and specialties. But one of the things that's as big as anything else is like where the rubber meets the road is, how do you pay for this stuff? So you said that you help them with arranging financing and getting some of these links put together? That's pretty cool!
[00:04:53] Speaker A: So you know, a lot of times it’s hard to get financing when you're starting a business because you don't have your business credit, you need to be in business for like two years before they start lending you. If not, you're using your personal credit. I've found a vendor, or I guess it would be a provider that does it more or less off of your personal experience. Years that you've been in the industry more or less than how long you've owned a lab. So, that has really helped a couple of mine. I know of one I talked to in Vegas that they signed up for them, and it helped them to be able to finance something that they wouldn't have been able to finance due to their personal credit or whatever. So yeah, I try to think of everything. I actually got a really good friend of mine that I grew up with, and she's been my financial advisor for years, and I just did an interview with her the other day I haven’t released yet on my Instagram. But, I was asking her, what are some things that small labs need to do? Like money, like saving tips, like financial tips that you would save for retirement. So I try to teach them all education as far as, educating them on retirement. What investment funds do you need to invest in? Like how do you have a cash reserve, like when those things are slow and if there's an emergency thing happening and you need $5,000. Having her on is going to help educate them on that side as well.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: Wow, that's a lot more broad coverage than one might expect just stepping in. That's really cool, that's amazing! So you come from a background of, of a two person lab, right, it was in a clinic or something like that?
[00:06:29] Speaker A: No, originally I started in a lab, I’d have to say there were probably 15, 15 people in that laboratory. And I branched off of that. The first actually, I got in there. It was kind of crazy, so I never thought I would. I didn't even know what a crowded bridge was when I was 20 years old, but I had played softball, basically my whole life. And I blew out my knee before going out to college and, so I had taken a break because I had therapy and everything. So I'd taken a break. I wasn't able to transfer. I want to do sports medicine because we had just purchased the Carolina Panthers here, and in my mind, I knew everything there was to know about knees and reconstruction. And I was gonna work for the Carolina Panthers. So I took a summer off before transferring into sports medicine and fell in love with it. I remember going to my lab manager and I said, so which physician pays the most money? And at the time, it was ceramics. So I said, okay, so on my lunch, every lunch I'd sit and I'd watch. Now I've always been an artist. So watching this, seeing what she did I was like, pfft, I can do that. And I have no idea what it's supposed to look like, but give me a picture. I can make it do it. So I did that for the longest time, just kind of teaching myself how to stack porcelain, how not to overbuild it, and at the time the lab manager was kind of watching me like, what is this girl doing? Like what's going on? And so he was a ceramic manager and then the crown-and-bridge manager was watching me too. And they came up to me one day and they said, the bridge guy said, hey, here's a block of wax. I want you to carve this out. I want you to, I want the roots. Here's a picture. I want the roots. I want the crown. I want all that and bring it back to me. I was like, okay, yay! And then the ceramic manager was like, don't be taking my girl, like, I brought her here because I saw potential. So basically, long story short, the ceramic manager actually was leaving to start his own lab and he said, hey, would you like to come with me? And I did. And so from there on, I wasn’t forced to learn? But it was just he and I. So it was, you know, I was doing model work, I was doing everything. And that's just kind of how my career started. And then I got pregnant with my daughter and I ended up wanting to get closer to her at school, you know, be a class mom, and I started working for a dentist, so I did an in-house lab for a minute. So yeah, and then it just kind of progressed from there, you know, went from one to another until I started my own lab.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: So you started your own lab. And, how's that shaped your outlook with bringing Savvy to life? And where do you see the future of the small dental lab?
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Well, that's where my passion comes in, because I know how hard it is to be a one man show. And I know, sometimes you just need to ask for help. And, you know, that's why I wanted to start Savvy. I think just, you know, seeing the, you know, the diss of... I don’t want to say injustice, but seeing that, you know, we don't get the breaks and the discounts that these big corporate labs do. And, I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand why we don't. But at the same time, we're the ones that really need it. Like. And I think that's what really triggered me just, you know, having my lab for 17 years, and seeing those having to shut down because they can't compete with the corporate crowds and you know, the prices that they're doing. And I feel like that's why I was like, you know what? No. You know, I'm going I want to always be in this industry. And I was like, you know, I'm going to help my friends to be able to remain a business owner. I wanted it to be where I help you increase your bottom line, your profit margin, because I want you to sell your lab when you want to sell it, when you're ready to retire, not because you have to sell it. And so I started Savvy for mainly that reason. But another reason I started Vavvy is my daughter. Actually she's here for two more days and she's getting ready to move to Hawaii. Her and her husband, he's in the Coast Guard. And so I wanted to create something, so when they start a family, that I can kind of be away from the bench a little bit and still be able to serve the industry and help small labs and all of us grow and still be able to make money. So it was a little bit of, you know, passion, family and just the season of life that I'm in right now. And so that's kind of how Savvy came about.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: That’s beautiful. That makes a lot of sense. Like and it sounds like, technology has probably played a big part in that as well. Right.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: It has, yeah, it has actually. On my lab side. And, you know, with Savvy and with my lab being that, you know, I am the main ceramist there. So I do all the designing, all the QC, all that. So it does help me. So if I'm out traveling and I go to Hawaii soon, I can still do my digital design, because that's where digital really comes in. It helps you a lot, I can do it anywhere! So I can do my digital design, send it to the mill, you know, then it’s there waiting on me to finish it up when I get there.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: That's perfect. That’s one of the big legs up with the technology. What are some other ways you've seen the new techs shape the smaller lab, like, what abilities as a given the small labs you feel that they didn't have access to before?
[00:11:53] Speaker A: Okay. Well, I think with digital, you can get an education that you, you know, can't always have if it's analog. You could watch. I feel like there's a lot of training when it comes to digital. Also at my lab personally with AI. AI has really helped and I've used it a lot for training my assistant. She's actually an artist as well, and she was a dental assistant. So when I brought her in, it was a win-win for me because she just learned it just like that. And I didn't necessarily have the time to sit at the computer and train her how to design a crown. I would, but, you know, that takes time, right? So what I started out doing, I found that it may seem backwards, it may not work for everyone, but I would send stuff to AI, an automate like 3shape to automate, like we would send it to them and then we would get it back and then I'd have her tweak it. I'd have her check the margins, check the contacts, you know, dial in the occlusion, that kind of stuff. And it kind of gave her a, like a blueprint, like, you know, something to start with and then kind of design from there. She knew what a crown was supposed to look like, being an artist and an assistant. She knew what it was or something like, but using your hands is different than, actually using a mouse and doing it. I feel like that has helped me as far as training my assistant.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really interesting approach. Because that's often an issue with, going from analog to digital is learning how to take what's in your hand and transform it into something on the screen. So that's a pretty cool approach. What are some of the things that you wish you knew going into this now or something that you'd share to a lab trying to step into the digital world? Because I know that a lot of the small labs are still hanging on to that analog stuff and trying to decide, do I retire or do I double down and go digital?
[00:13:43] Speaker A: Oh, I was that person, haha. I was at first. Like I said, I'm pretty old school. I like that model in my hand. I like that, you know, it's been around for so long, it's all dialed in, like, what you're going to get every time and, you know, and but that was my mind. But of course, with digital, you know, when you get into it, it's the same thing. But there is a fear. There's a fear of, like, gosh, what if I'm like, you know, I'm a really good ceramicist and I'm a good technician. I can do it all. But I don't know this side and it is frightening. I guess what I would just suggest is do it like, you just got to get in there. Just like when you started analog, you didn't know what you were doing. You start to get in there and just learn the digital. And again, no one is bored. No to how to do this. Everybody has to start in baby steps. Just get in there, watch YouTube videos as friends and just have someone come to your lab. There's so many. There's so many sources out there, like in a VR setting. There were there's a couple, educational groups that could come to your lab and help train your technicians on technology or anything. I actually.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. So how do you see that play into, So, like, a lot of the labs, it seems, are either going corporate or they're going into the dental practices. How do you see the future of the smaller lab?
[00:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I that's what I say to, that's what I'm trying to prevent. I, you know, with savvy, I want people to be able to sell out to the lab because they've made their money and they're done. Arabias their grandbabies and sell on because they want to, not because they have to. And I feel like sometimes where we're in a small lab, you kind of get pressured with that. The, you know, the larger labs are selling crowns for like really cheap, like really cheap. And if you're a boutique lab, who does it really bulk pricing and group price and it's hard for you to you can't compete. And I don't recommend anybody to compete with that. Like, you know we're talking about a Honda crown versus a Mercedes crowns. And you know you get what you pay for. And I feel like yeah they both run. They both are functional. And you know it's it they get you from point A to B. The cars do. But at the same time you pay for quality and I and I don't recommend any of these labs low in their prices because I feel like it hurts our industry. So I was told I was like, stick it out like. And I think that's what was savvy is my main thing. If I can increase or profit margin, you know, that way they see that. Yeah. You know this this lab is doing crowns for $30, $59. Ours might be $159. You know, you know, I want them to see that they're getting more profit for their, you know, for their crowns, you know, by getting the discounts and the group pricing so they don't have to minimize. Yeah.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: The only success stories you can think of, that you can pull from certain members that are obviously, you know, you can't mention names in particular, but in stories, whether it, they're 180 form, for example, like they were not sure what they're going to do with their future. And then after meeting you and joining savvy, they've, found a whole new outlook or changed their direction entirely.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: Yeah, actually, I've had several several people. Are some of my vendors right. Be like, don't say this. But, you know, I, I tell people when they're starting out, you know, you kind of get this hype, like you got to have your meal, you gotta have a center and you gotta have your own furnace. I like your own, printer. You don't have to like, there's so many great milling centers out there that you can receive your digital files, design your own work, send your cell to a mail center. You can get a crown back, especially, as you said, Savvy discount. You get really discounted pricing on your crowns. You know, back in time. If you want to invest in the center and oven and receive it in green state, you can then if you if you don't let them, let them kill it for you. Let them do your centering for you know, when you get it back, just finish the margins, check a contacts occlusion stain and glaze it, and the profit margin there is so high because you're not having to pay for maintenance of your meal. You don't have to buy a library of all your zirconia pots, all the different thicknesses and shades, you know, and you don't have to pay that technician to run it. So it is almost when you outsource to, you know, like Millicent, are you are basically saving and not having to pay for our technician to start off with. And I'm not saying that's going to be forever, but as you grow that, you know your cash revenue and you say, hey, your camera's like, hey, you need to buy some equipment, you get ready to pay a lot of taxes, then invest in your mail and your furnace and all that. But starting now, you do not have to go all in and get everything that you need like that. And I think what I, I've, I've had at least three labs that were, you know, they were like, hey, we've got this list, I got this, this, this and that. And I say, okay, well, you can go to no, I can go to lobby, get all this stuff. And I said, but honestly, do you really think you need that right now. Just kind of like, you know, get a foundation, get your, you know, your the cash flow and then let's reach out there and do it. So I think I've a lot of my success stories were basically them realizing, hey, you don't have to get everything that these big labs or, have at the very beginning because you're not a big lab, you're a small lab, you're, you know, you're personal. So, you know, I think that has been a big game changer. A lot of labs will come to me and say, saying thank you, like, you really save me a lot of money, a lot of overhead for kind of giving me that. Just that simple advice.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: It's a it's a shift in the framework of your mindset from I have to be fully independent to, well, maybe there is a teamwork option here where you can share some of the burden of production with other, other labs, and it's not necessarily your lab versus the world where it's your lab working with other labs, like a mailing center, so that can work as a high quality partner through high quality partner like savvy where you can coordinate. And that just set up this sort of teamwork thing. I mean, that's part of where I came from in this whole thing, was that you don't have to buy a mill out of the gate. Maybe just get a scanner and some software. Yeah. Start designing your crowns. One of my favorite conversations lately with labs is 3D printers. You know, they're like, I can't afford a 6000 and 10,000 and $15,000 3D printer. And it's like, yeah, you can. Whoa, how am I going to support? Well, what are you paying for each of these printed models that you're sending off to a third party? Well, it's only 25 bucks, 35 bucks, 15, you know, whatever. For this model of that model, it's like, okay, and how many of those are you doing a week, 2030? It's like, well, you're paying for the printer twice a week and you just don't have it. So yeah. You know, it's it's the. Yeah. I got I have a lot of friends in this industry that are like that where they just can't get out of their own way to,
Vicki: But let me help you and join the team to where we help each other, because the more we have, the more discounts we get. And it's going to make that $97 even more valuable.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: What, what would you say would be the first step for, labs that are looking to get into this? You think that they should dive into the software, or do you think they should get classes? Where would you put yourself if you had to start from scratch?
[00:20:53] Speaker A: I would say both and probably at the same time. Because if you don't have the software and you don't have the education, it's kind of like, what are you doing with your software? Like, you know, but a lot nowadays with the exec ad with the revolve, you know, you get your exec ad pro, then they offer their education. You know, y'all got a great staff there. You know disc jockey ecology sorry. It's like they're like family to me. Josh, Jonny exocad. Yes. So I mean, they all do excellent education. You know who, you know, get your get your software from you say evolve or Nowak or whomever, and, and then you get your trainer with it as well. And the same with reshape, you know, they offer education and and outside of that, you could also just have someone pay them to come to your lab and, you know, do some training there. Or you could go to the facilities and learn as well. But I think you kind of need both, because if you go somewhere to learn it and you can't go back and implement it, then it's really like, you know what you got. But I would definitely say get both at the same time.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: The one thing that I think is, probably not talked about as much is so a lot of discussion, and about a lot of discussion about the advantages that larger labs have, right. The leverage they have with some of the vendors. What are some of the advantages that small labs have over the big labs, and what are some of the ways that they can pivot themselves and to position themselves in the market, to compete not just on, say, price or maybe just exclusively quality? What are some other advantages that small labs have that they can offer to practices and doctors out there?
[00:22:30] Speaker A: I think the biggest thing is consistency. When you're a small lab, you have that same technician touch in that crowd every time. I think with these large labs, I'm not saying the quality is not good. They do great work as well, but it's not going to be consistent because you got time doing it one week. You got Johnny doing it the next week, and it's, you know, it's like it's different. And it doesn't matter if they're both excellent technique niches, the context and the way they do thing is different. You know. And I think like with my lab I've, I've always been able to me for 17 years my doctors don't leave. And it's not that I'm such a great technician. It's because they get the exact same thing every time I check those contacts. Occlusion. Everything is the same every time it goes out, and I think that's what they like. I think, you know, getting that consistent shape. The contacts are the same. Everything I say, I think the consistency adds so much value and quality to the crowns. And when you get a crown back or a sheet back, I have like a little report card that they fill out and they decide contacts are perfect, no adjustments. And it's every time and I want to see that I send this report card out because I want to see is is anything changing. I, you know, making sure that I'm continuing to give you exactly what you want. So I want to know, is it from 1 to 5? How was this case? And I think that's what the difference is between a small lab and a large lab. As far as is the consistency, quality, the personal relationships you have. I, you know, I know that a lot of large labs, I probably pass out their cell phone numbers to their doctors, but you know what? My doctors, I mean, they'll shoot, they'll text me at 10:00 at night, start asking me stuff, and I'm like, okay. But like, I feel like you having that relationship with them, they know they can call you. They can. Again, I've kind of carried that same philosophy that I have. The savvy is I tell my doctors all the time, no question. Is it a dumb question? You ask me anything, you know, they might call me up and they'll say, okay, I've got a crown that's going to be under a partial. What do you need for me? Like, how do I because I, they did it in a log like you do it with an impression but as a digital scan, like, how do I do that for you and I and I always tell them, you know, this is what I've signed up and not I'm not sure I but this is what I see and it works and let's go that route. So I think just having that personal relationship with the doctors, letting you know that you, you're an open book, you think they could ask anything. But like I said, the main thing is consistency and having that continuous quality every day, all day, every crown.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah. One of the best things I ever heard, growing into this, was you're only as good as your last crown, and that the consistency of the quality, directly feeds back into that relationship. And that's it. You're not going to Walmart for your crown. You're having that one on one. Same one every time. And some doctors especially, like, really appreciate that. And I feel like you can grow together. Because not every doctor has 40 years in the field doing this either. Some of these stars are fresh out of school, and I think that they need the help of, technician that's had, you know, ten, 15, 20 years of experience, like it's because at the end of the day, a lot of doctors are coming out of school. Maybe they even have four or 5 or 7 years in the field, but they're not making teeth every day. They're eating crowns. I know oral anatomy, but they don't necessarily know how the construction process works. So it's a team effort. It's the it's you in that relationship with the doctor versus the patient's expectations.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: They're right. Yeah. Because I don't think these schools are training the doctors like they back in the day. The doctors had to watch like gold crowns. They had to cast on. They had to do all this. I, I don't know what all they're learning now. I know I've, friends with of India who runs know that Nova It's a school there in Florida. I think that's the name of it. But anyway, like, he has really brought a lot of digital technology into his school, but not all schools are that way. You know, he's got the robot, he's got scanners, he's doing all the things. But most schools, you know, you know, I don't. I don't know what they're doing as far as training the doctors on the, on the lab side anymore. So I think they're taught a lot more business or what to do as far as making money. So when it comes down to actually making a crowd, I don't really know what's being what they're doing. I'm sure they're a lot of stuff that how much time are they spent? So I think they do need that relationship with the laboratory to kind of help guide them, for sure. And another thing I will add to is talking about what separates a small lab and and again, I'm sure large labs are just as good. But having that your word is, is goal. Like if you say a case is going to be their on their return date, it better be their day before your return date. Like don't run it in at 8:00 in the morning. The patient's coming at nine. Like you just you can't do that. You have to definitely make sure that your word is gold. And if you say the case is going to be there on the 15th, you'll have a call and you're asking you want to get take care of that cases. Make sure you have it there in a 40, I think. Get it there a day early so they can plan for their next day is really key as well.
[00:27:38] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. The rescheduling of patients is the death of any relationship between a doctor and a lab. Emergencies happen. Tragedies happen. Sometimes UPS just falls off a cliff. Sometimes we have a crazy winter storm allegedly. Suffice it. Right. You know, interrupt, interrupt the flow. I mean, depending, I mean, maybe not so crazy here, but it's definitely crazy in other parts of the country where it's like, oops, and good luck. So, Vicky, earlier you mentioned that you were working in an office, as part of an in-house lab. Do you see that as being a big part of the future for laboratories and the direct, close relationship that they have with some of their doctors?
[00:28:17] Speaker A: I, I do, I think it is they're really based more or less on what type lab it is. I feel like if they're go on doing the conversions and as on all at all an ex, kind of laboratory boutique lab, I do think that the doctors are really welcoming that because you get to have that personal as a good marketing tool for them to write. Like, I have my lab, they're going to be, you know, you have that person that comes to your site and lets that patient know, hey, we you know, you're important to us. You know, we're going to work together. The lab and the doctor, we're going to create this beautiful. I said it for you. I think it is important. I think that, it I see a lot of it going that way, especially for dentures and all of that. You know, I don't know about Pas as being a boutique cosmetic veneer. Might not be like a lab in a doctor's office, but I think for how long it's in place in cases like that, I think labs would definitely benefit from being in a dentist office. Yeah, I think it's a thing. And that's kind of makes me think about us. Back to Savi. I'm actually revamping Savi a little bit. I'm trying to add a little bit more value to, their membership other than just discounts. I know we spoke earlier about consulting, education. All that is being added at their one year anniversary. But that's something. Something I really want to bring in is maybe those doctors who have their clinics and labs within their offices to bring them into, say, my, you know, my lab and train them on how to make a prettier crown. Because if there are sisters, I never were actually a technician that wanted to be a technician, but I kind of were just an assistant. And a daughter is like, okay, this is what you're doing now. I want to teach you. If you're going to do it, I want to teach you how to do it and do it right. So I'm going to offer kind of, you know, education and training as well. Bring people in. I could do it or just bring some people in, and train them to do it. And, you know, that way they can deliver better product.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: It seems to be something that's increasingly prevalent because I, I would say that I probably train maybe 1 or 2 assistants a week now in Axo CAD, and maybe not as a full time laboratory, but they're definitely doing high quality, like, say, 3D printed temporaries in-house and then even other small restorations. And it seems to be that it's a good way for some of the doctors, the solo practitioners, to push back against the DSO takeover of that side of the industry, too, because we yeah, especially on the lab side, you see a lot of the, you know, a lot of the small labs having to struggle to survive in a sea of, say, foreign imported crowns. But one of the things I think is sort of overlooked is maybe the other side. The doctors are looking at the same kind of thing where some of the big sharks in the water, swallowing up the small practices and squeezing them out. It sounds like groups like savvy and the small labs and smaller solo practitioners need to be working together more.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: Finding their effort and building these relationships like you're talking about.
[00:31:20] Speaker A: I agree, I think it adds value to both lab and the office. I think it's a great idea.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: What are some common mistakes you see with, the small labs though, and trying to build these relationships. What are some pitfalls you've either encountered yourself or observed and, what advise people to avoid and, how do you overcome those?
[00:31:42] Speaker A: What? The relationship with the doctors. Is that what you're either are producers.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: Or building a lab like a, like having a small lab and either, keeping it afloat or moving from the analog world into digital or starting your for lab for the first time. And trying to get it up and running. Because as anyone who's ever tried to start a business or even heard of anybody starting a business knows those first 2 or 3 years are their struggle often. And that's if you can get past those then you're then you're good. But getting past that hurdle so if you could, if you could give them any advice or insight, what would you say?
[00:32:21] Speaker A: I would kind of go back to our previous conversation. I would say your word is gold, like you have to be. If you say something's going to be there, or if you're going to say you're going to do something, you have to communicate. Communication is huge for these doctors. And, you know, I actually think this is a great idea because I don't think with inside the offices, sometimes they communicate with each other. The front desk don't always talk to the assistant, don't talk, you know. So I feel like create a group chat when you say, this is an issue I'm having with you now.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: Okay? Okay.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Don't just say it to the front desk, because they might not tell the doctor and the assistant. So make sure everybody's on the same page so you can't get thrown under the bus. Because if your word is you want your word to go have something that documents. Hey, I told them this, this, this and that, so I have started doing that with most of the offices because I realize that they don't communicate with the front. Does it communicate with the back? And then it makes me feel like I didn't do something right. I'm like that, right? Go do that. Because I think it's very important that you have that relationship with them, and they have to be able to trust you, because if they can't trust you, then what do you have? What kind of relationship is a relationship without trust? Another thing I would say is, this is going to be the hardest thing, and anybody can do it. Honestly, it's if I can figure it out. And sure, when they I would be great. But the whole balance between home life and work life, like, you know, create. You are a boutique lab. You're not a sweatshop lab. Like, you know, you don't have to, you know, figure out a way to let your doctors know. Hey. And again, I'm preaching to the choir here. Tell them, you know, hey, I'm going to need a little bit more time because my family is important to me. I'm leaving at 5:00, you know, and I'm. I think that's what's really hard for small labs to do is we get in early, we work late, we work weekends, we work snow days because that's a day to catch up, you know? And I'm not saying that is never going to not be a thing, but try to balance out your family and work life, you know, because, you know, like here my daughter's 28 moving to Hawaii. And I'm thinking, gosh, all these towns I had to work on playing Legos at my feet while I was working. I could have been, you know, you do have regret. So, just kind of help balance that out. And just, you know, everything falls into place. It really does. I think if you're just honest, you have consistency. You have, stuff there on time and your quality is and your world is gold. I think, you know, you're going to prosper.
[00:34:51] Speaker B: And that's a really good point about that. Well, two things. The first off, the group chat is a great idea. The document, because it is not necessarily call out the doctor because they're busy, as you said, the front desk, the doctor, the systems, they're not always on the same page. And when you are trying to say, well, I got this scan and I don't know what to do with this, and the bite's clearly off, and there's a bubble on the margin and there's some other thing going on here. What do I do with it? And then you just get somebody who comes in and says, my favorite phrase in dentistry, I'll just do the best you can and all the time. Yeah, all the time. And you just pay like it's it's a return to you. Look, I'm not trying to call you out, doc, but this is what I was told. This is the message I got back. And you have some kind of records on where that came from. I think that's a really good point. It's just good documentation, good records, good communication above all. And the other thing that you said that I really, really like was the the work life balance, which is especially hard for a small world.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: It's hard. It is hard.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: But the truth is, is that and this is true of really any small business that if you allow it, in fact, not even if you allow it, if you don't actively guard against it, the business is like a gas. It will take up every bit of volume in your life that it can. And you do have to contain it a little bit, because at the end of the day, like you said, the do your doctors remember the days you worked late or does your doctor.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: We are all people working in this together and they need you need to communicate with them so that you know, they know and they know. You know that you're all just in this together. It's a team effort and you're not working against them. They're not working against you, your people.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: I had seen someone had posted on Facebook the other day say, I'm retired from, owning a lab for so many years. It's like, now I can finally take a vacation. I haven't had a vacation in this amount of years, and I'm like, I think we have to realize, you know what? These doctors are just human like us. Like, you know, they all have a family as well. If you say, okay on these days, I'm going to be gone for a week. So anything you receive from this day, I just need an extra week on it. Just, you know, if you say that they get it, they understand. But you have to. There goes that communication again. You have to have that communication. You can't just not do it. And then they send work and then you come back. You got three days to finish that case. Communicate with them. They will understand. But you have to let them know I'm not going to be in the office for that week. Don't even call me. Don't text me. I'm will be in Mexico or wherever you may be. Like, what would you have to set that time to travel and you need to reset your brain. Look, yeah, this is break. We just need to just take breaks.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: You do better work when you when you're better rested, when you have better, or when you're having just been at the bench for 30 years straight.
[00:37:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And you're a better parent. You know, you're a better guy. You a better sponsor, a better carrot. When you get those breaks and you're able to just step away, step away. So I do think that's very important. And again I'm kind of preaching to the choir. But you know it's hard, especially when you are a small lad. You're like well how can I do that? Like, you know, these big labs are doing $50 crowns and I'm over here just barely staying afloat, all for what I have. And, you know, so it is hard. And I think everybody's scared to death that they're going to lose an account. But I think if you're honest with them, you're not going to.
[00:38:22] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sure the labs are scared of the doctor, frankly, they're scared of pushing back at all. And one of the things that I've found, and I think that you are sharing similar insights here, is that, well, first off, if you communicate ahead of time, hey, I'm planning on taking this week off or these few days off so that I can go with my family and have some time, the doctor might come back. Oh, that's a really bad week for me. Well, what's a better week for you? And then you work together to find it. It's like, okay, well, this does work out and it's not a surprise to them or anyone else. And you can kind of keep the work consistent and on time and flowing. Another thing that I would say there, in reflection to what you're saying is not every doctor is considerate and maybe and this is a hard pill for small labs to swallow, but maybe that's not the right doctor for you. There's a lot of clients out there. There's a lot of practices. I don't care how small your town is, there's a lot of business out there to be had. And if you are a doctor, is not one that's willing to work with you a little bit, communicate with you properly, let you have a life, and vice versa. Maybe an interview on let them work on work with another lab and you find one that does work with you. You build these relationships because you are a small lab. You can't work with a thousand doctors, but you can work with 5 or 10 really, really good ones that work with you well and vice versa.
[00:39:42] Speaker A: Exactly. I agree.
[00:39:47] Speaker B: it's just I have reflections of, when I was, I mean, I burned up my 20s doing the same thing, like, I had no life other than my business. And, you know, maybe, maybe that was necessary. But I definitely lost a lot of friendships and relationships over the years from that. And also and I don't think in the end, it was necessary, to be burning the wick at both ends quite so passionately. And also, you know, I saw my own parents through the same thing, like, it's the, you know, especially my dad, you know, like, just going after hardest working man in dentistry, not the smartest working man in dentistry, but definitely the hardest system.
Yeah.
[00:40:37] Speaker A: But when you're in it, though, you can't be totally different because all you're seeing is their competitors are selling these cheaper products. So they've got you know, and nowadays with social media guys, you can make it look how you want to look like. This lab is doing amazing. I mean, they're doing all this all the stuff and you start thinking like, oh wow. Like, am I behind the curve? Like, what am I right for? Getting, you know, people get a little intimidated or they, you know, you know, so I don't know, I think there it is. And I think it's that whole American dream right from our success. You gotta have this, this and that and that, and you want it by this day and by this season of your life. And I feel like we put a lot of pressure on ourselves and yeah, I think there we need to find a home, like, you know, work, balance. But again, I.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: And how do you define your success too? You know, was it. What does success mean to you? You know.
[00:41:30] Speaker A: Everybody's different. Yeah.
[00:41:33] Speaker B: And I also think that one of the things there is, what success means to you probably changes with different seasons of your life. And the unfortunate thing is, is what it probably should mean doesn't mean what it means early on, you know, because at first it's like, well, I want this house and I want this car, and I'm on a boat or whatever, right? Later on, it's like, maybe I just want a family. If if you just want to be comfortable or. That's, this has been an incredible conversation. I've really enjoyed this. What are some other closing thoughts you have on this? Like, what are some things that people can do to join savvy? Where can people find you online and in social media?
[00:42:18] Speaker A: So you can find me at Savvy Lab solutions.com. It's just going to be the home page that tells you a little bit of what savvy is all about. If you want to see a little bit more behind the scenes, you can go to Instagram or Facebook at Savvy Lab Solutions. And, there you'll see pretty much the vendors I try to post my vendors on there. I try to do interviews with my vendors and kind of show a little bit more behind the scenes on all that and the events that we attend. But yeah, you can find that all socials are either on my website.
[00:42:46] Speaker B: Excellent. Thank you Vicki, we appreciate you joining us. And thank you everyone for joining us for the Evolution of Dental Podcast, brought to you by Evolution Dental Science. If you enjoyed this episode, please look for more episodes on all your favorite podcast platforms. Remember to like, subscribe and share this show! Never stop evolving.
